Mormon Gold . - Polyg Talk

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1 yankie

22nd March 2008 - 05:33 PM

Its kinda quiet around here , and quiet is a good thing to have for me to tell a tale of a very superstitious but true story . If truth is stranger than fiction then this is the truth upon truth and strangest of tales , because its true , all true .

There is a common thread running through the Mormon church . Its a thread of gold by the ton . From the earliest beginnings of the Mormon faith of seer-or stones, buried treasure , golden plates to this very day where stocks are held in mines containing Aztec gold by some of the faithful members of the Mormon church. Enough gold to save America during the last days , they say . Gold has played a very mysterious part of the Mormon development and is superstitious as can be to "Knowing" Mormons .

There's two kinds of Mormon gold , the blessed and the cursed , Cursed gold ? Oh yeah , protected by blood oaths and death and watched over some say by Spirits of the dead .

Blessed gold , the gold God leads his saints too in order to build up his kingdom .

Before the Mormons in Utah started their own gold currency that started two years after they arrived in the SLC valley and printed gold coins for over ten years , And befor Brigham Young sent members on gold missions to California a very historical as well as a very golden coincidence was taking place . So coincidental it makes reason stair you in your eyes giving the odds and exact timing .

In 1846 a Mormon by the Name of Thomas Rhoads was sent out to the soon to be Utah territory by Brigham Young to make sure it would be alright for the thousands of saints to follow . He and his group left for Utah one year befor the "first" wagon train of saints headed west with Brigham . Thats the accepted version of church that took place ,( wink? wink? )--Maybe ? but even so , its not well known .

Who's Thomas Rhoads ? Why I bet even Sayit or Cactus dont even know . Tom would play a part with just about anything as far as the church was concerned with gold . From developing the silver and gold fields at Minersville Utah , Becoming secretary of finances during the gold minting years , and even the first blood oath member of a secret pact with the Ute Indians to remove gold from the Uinta mountains are just a few things he would become to known by .

Thats who he would become when he left for Utah in 1846. But ol Tom , known also as the Mormon path finder had a problem , seems he over shot the turn off for SLC valley and went to Utah by way of California , but not just any part of California as it happened , nope he went and stayed a short while at a river called the American fork River . Well as it happened , after several months in 1847 some 100-150 of his good Mormon buddies who had been released from the Mormon battalion decided to go to Utah by way of the American fork river and stay in there as well . Um ,not much under half of the whole Mormon battalion chose to stay even though most of them had been released months earlier

Must have been something about that American fork river that just attracted Mormons I guess . Heck after a while they even had their own section of ground named after them called "The Mormon Island ." They must of like that place over their resettled families just starting out in Utah for their very first year .

Just a few months after Tom and all his Mormon buddies decided to hang out there and just into the next year of 1848 a history happening event took place , and its by the diary of a Mormon what day it actually happened . It was meant to be keep secret untill all the good getting was gotten but with gold secrets just dont last long .

Just so happened that Tom and his good Friends were working for a friend of Toms named Sutter , well from the same Mormon diary historians know the actual date , they also have a good Idea despite different accounts who it was that said , Um , I'm not sure , but aint that stuff in the creek Gold ? Yup , it was , and if you were there wouldn't you go looking for your own diggings ? --(If you hadn't all already?) Well , Tom and all his Mormon buddies did just that .

Up until then they didn't have a reason to stay , Naw, they just stayed there to be longer away from their family and church , it was only going on two years , why hurry ? But now with the gold ? They decided to stay a bit longer . Guess that would be a good reason to stick around.

Think that is the end of the story ?, nope , not even close to a story of Gold and the Mormons , but if you want to know more I 'm going to hit you up for five votes from you others if you want me to tell you about of this tale . Just call it

the Mormon way in me to get you to pay out .

Ol Tom and soon his kid were going to offer to pay off the 100 million dollars of National debt to our goverment for a hunk of land that they were going to use gold to pay for , and our Government ? What did they decide ? Well I aint going to tell ya just now , pay out or pack up .LOL

Cactus Jim

22nd March 2008 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE (1 yankie @ Mar 22 2008, 05:33 PM)

Think that is the end of the story ?, nope , not even close to a story of Gold and the Mormons , but if you want to know more I 'm going to hit you up for five votes from you others if you want me to tell you about of this tale . Just call it

Well, I'm in. I vote to sustain elder Yank in his mission to enlighten us about t he history of the Mormon Gold.

1 yankie

23rd March 2008 - 08:24 PM

QUOTE (Cactus Jim @ Mar 22 2008, 11:11 PM)

Well, I'm in. I vote to sustain elder Yank in his mission to enlighten us about t he history of the Mormon Gold.

Well Cactus , seems like you're the only one interested in this Mormon gold history , Seems only right to Finish up the California gold portion of the story .

There's one more piece of the story befor the stage is set , A Mormon by the name of Sam Brannon , California"s first to be Millionaire , had arrived with about 250 Mormon saints in San francisco the summer of 1846 .

So there you have it , The Mormon golden boy Tom Rhaods who left one year befor the rest of the saints in 1846 , headed straight to the American fork river .

You have around 100-150 Mormon discharged soidlers at the American fork river . Despite what common thought being , that they did not have enough money to return Utah . That's simply not true , In Dec. of 1847 Brigham Young was given by some returning Battalion memebers close to 10,000 dollars for army discharge payment . Lots of money in those days .

Down River you Had Brannon who had perhaps the only News Paper in S.F. , a town less than one thousand people , who had already been at the early Mormon diggings just after the rumors started from his up stream saints . Brannon sends his SF saints up river befor Printing his paper about the gold and literary , no joking, runs around the streets of SF with pint bottles of gold yelling gold , gold . Cactus , I know you think I'm full of beans here , you can check all this out yourself . Yup , ol Brannon then puts his news papers on a few ships and stages as the rest is history .

You can also read the US Army's reports what they saw when they sent a dispatchment after hearing all the commotion of gold , Three Hundred Mormon men working as a group after staking out their claims on a area that it is said was the second highest gold producing mother loads of the California gold rush .

This Claim area of the Mormons was soon to be called Mormon Island . Goggle Mormon Island . What you're going to find is Mormon Island soon became a town of 2,500 of primarily Mormons saints . Aint that something ,at the time , perhaps the third largest populated Mormon town out west was in California sitting on a major gold claim .

Some of the Mormon Balaton left for Utah the summer of 1848 , by the winter of 1848 Brigham was minting Mormon gold coins .

Its all true what little I have told you , If you question anything at all please ask , I can back it up . There a lot more to Mormon & the gold rush days but that's for another day , if you think this is strange or outstanding , well Pard , this aint nothing to whats going to happen with Tom Rhoads and Utah gold , nope ,

But no one around here cares about that I guess , Fine by me , I dont care to say anyway .

Cactus Jim

24th March 2008 - 04:43 AM

QUOTE (1 yankie @ Mar 23 2008, 08:24 PM)

Its all true what little I have told you , If you question anything at all please ask , I can back it up . There a lot more to Mormon & the gold rush days but that's for another day , if you think this is strange or outstanding , well Pard , this aint nothing to whats going to happen with Tom Rhoads and Utah gold , nope ,

But no one around here cares about that I guess , Fine by me , I dont care to say anyway .

Keep it comin Yank. Very fascinating at that. I'd heard about Sam Brannon, but not Tom Rhoads. Judging from the views, I'd say people are reading, but they just aren't talking much.

1 yankie

24th March 2008 - 09:18 AM

QUOTE (Cactus Jim @ Mar 24 2008, 04:43 AM)

Keep it comin Yank. Very fascinating at that. I'd heard about Sam Brannon, but not Tom Rhoads. Judging from the views, I'd say people are reading, but they just aren't talking much.

Yeah Sam Brannon was quite the guy , made a fortune , but he got cross ways with Young , Ten percent for tithing wasn't enough for him , he was expecting and for sometime getting thirty percent from his followers in the gold rush . Well Young didn't like that at all , but I have to be honest here , I dont think Young was upset that Brannon was over charging , nope , I think Young was upset he didn't get the extra twenty percent , I doubt he would give any of it back .

Cursed gold ? Well it could be said in someways Brannon"s gold became cursed If you goggle what came of him , well from a Mormon perspective that is . He got X'ed from the church , his wife left him , died broke . Goggle Sam Brannon .

Tom Rhoads ? quite the guy as well , returns to Utah in the 1850's , given a sort of hero's welcome from Young , Young actually called him "father" Rhaods instead of brother Roahds . Young did say Rhoads only brought back to Utah 17, 000 dollars from the gold fields . Well I kinda question that some what , Young had his reasons not to boast up going to California for gold . Anyway Rhoads builds one of the biggest homes a couple of blocks from the soon to be temple , eventually becomes treasure over the Mormon churches money . Not bad for a guy who went against all of Young's teachings concerning searching for gold instead of farm for food , again from a Mormon perspective Rhoads gold was blessed , but going to get blessed even more .

OK , I'm not trying to suggest something to you , but have you think about somethings . There's some strong indication the Mormon connection to the gold rush days was more than it looks like if you dont look at the overall picture . Even so , the Mormons just seemed to be in the right place at the right time , and what group of people benefited the most from the gold rush ? That's got to be the Mormons .

If it wasn't all a plan how it happened , well you would have to say if it was not a plan it couldn't have went better for the Mormons . The only part of the plan that went bad was Brannon but not untill after he became incredibly rich and putting a lot of money into the coffers of the church .

Did the Mormons some how know about the gold along the American fork river as early as 1846 ? And second , did they want a gold rush were some how they would be in place to benefit the most from it from every possible angle as what would eventually happen ? Seems crazy to even consider as much, so most people dont . However given the odds and timing and up to their necks involvement as the Mormons were concerning the gold rush , not to mention how they would fare out in the long run there are others who think there is more to the story .

History is a fun thing to look at , and for me Mormon history the funnest , But , what I have learned is , you have to look at the befor a event and after to understand how much of the during really took place as its been told .

Its kinda like panning for gold itself , you pick through scatter information , high grade the important info and then smelt out the information to see how its lines up with the info others say is there . Just something to think about Cactus when you hold up your little nugget and compare it with the mountain of possibility .

chaster

24th March 2008 - 11:01 AM

Millard County has quite a rich tradition in legends of Mormon gold.

When I was ten or so, there was a bit of a buzz surrounding this guy who came to our town. He spoke in the First Ward church on his supositions, and as I recall, it was quite well atended. He had it figured that Mormon scriptures pretty clearly indicated Chalk Creek Canyon just East of Fillmore where some more golden plates are stashed. He and a group of locals organized an endeavor to find the gold. I seem to recall there was a death from asphyxiation due to mine gas of one of them. Cactus might set me straight on some of this.

Also, I had an uncle who had a very elaborabe story of how he'd found a cave full of gold but then could never find it again. The way he told the story, he made it sound quite credible. Course that was kind of his trademark, telling tall tales in a way that seemed credible.

That same uncle, when my mother was a young girl, roped her into helping her into testing this spark coil. Here, he said, you hold this wire here while I test it. And then he'd give her a big shock. And then he was all apologetic and how he didn't mean for that to happen and this time he for sure had it right. No really. This time I have it right and please hold this wire again. And then he shocked her again. He had that kind of a sense of humor.

Kind of a Mormon sense of humor you might say.

sayitaintso

24th March 2008 - 05:20 PM

QUOTE (1 yankie @ Mar 24 2008, 09:18 AM)

History is a fun thing to look at , and for me Mormon history the funnest , But , what I have learned is , you have to look at the befor a event and after to understand how much of the during really took place as its been told .

So when do we get to hear about Bishop Coils Dream Mine, and all the Hopi gold that was being squirreled off to BY? And.. oh yeah, Hole in the Rock, Butch Cassidy was invested heavy into secret gold mines too.

They say that BY is supposed to have said their was more gold within eyesight of SLC than in all of California, but he didn't want the brethren to go seeking after it. Those who went on to California gold digging instead of staying there with the saints would not return. Maybe Tom Rhoads was the exception? I hadn't heard of him, no. But I was aware that the gold strike in CA at Sutters Mill was a Mormon.

Actually it might surprise you to know how much gold Kennecott actually sells. According to some rumors, the gold pays the entire overhead of the copper mining operations. But.. I don't have any verification of that.

You know, don't ya yankie, that the definition of a gold mine is a hole in the ground with two liars standing by it. I'm not accusing you or anything like that... no sir, but if you find anything, you might want to let me or Cactus or someone you really trust know about it first.

1 yankie

24th March 2008 - 07:00 PM

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Mar 24 2008, 05:20 PM)

So when do we get to hear about Bishop Coils Dream Mine, and all the Hopi gold that was being squirreled off to BY?   And.. oh yeah,   Hole in the Rock,   Butch Cassidy was invested heavy into secret gold mines too.

They say that BY is supposed to have said their was more gold within eyesight of SLC than in all of California, but he didn't want the brethren to go seeking after it.   Those who went on to California gold digging instead of staying there with the saints would not return.   Maybe Tom Rhoads was the exception? I hadn't heard of him, no.   But I was aware that the gold strike in CA at Sutters Mill was a Mormon.

Actually it might surprise you to know how much gold Kennecott actually sells. According to some rumors, the gold pays the entire overhead of the copper mining operations. But.. I don't have any verification of that.

You know, don't ya yankie, that the definition of a gold mine is a hole in the ground with two liars standing by it.   I'm not accusing you or anything like that... no sir, but if you find anything, you might want to let me or Cactus or someone you really trust know about it first.

QUOTE

Gosh Sayit , by the tone of your post you must think I joshing you .

Well everything I have said is a matter of record , public record , yeah I know thats not as as good as Sunday school lessens where you know them all and there by know every thing .

Thomas Rhoads was in California in 1846 , he is the same guy who by request from Sutter went with his boy and a couple of others to rescue the remaining survivors of the Donner party . Check it out , affadavids and survivor statements .

The Mormons did have enough founds to have the entire Mormon Battalion go back to Utah , thats easy to check out as well . The story you most likly heard was the same one I did , at discharge they only received $ 32.50 thats part of the story Sayit , The Mormon captain was given Mexican gold coins as payment and he took this payment to Utah . Army records and church accounts say the same . Goggle Sherman gold rush and see what he says .

You can read what General Sherman said about the Mormon diggings and the amount of Mormon men there , and also , because you haven't , you can read about Mormon Island , Brannon and even the dealings Brannon was haveing with Sutter concerning a partner ship building a new town called "City of hope " very shortly after the news broke about gold .

Now you can say I'm adding the facts up wrong , maybe I am , but Sayit , that's better than pretending they do not exist like you might have been "trained".

As I said in the beginning , there is a thread of gold that runs through the Mormon church , and when it comes to gold the Mormons have been up to their neck with involvement , like or not it has been there . You must mean John Koyle . Funny you should mention this , one of my grand fathers shared a fence line with John , and a shirt tail relation was the stake pres named J.Angus C. who Xed him . Yeah I know that story , been through some their drifts as a kid while up north .

sayitaintso

24th March 2008 - 07:19 PM

QUOTE (1 yankie @ Mar 24 2008, 07:00 PM)

Gosh Sayit , by the tone of your post you must think I joshing you .

Heck no, I"m taking your word for all this. No need to get the ad hominems about "pretending" going.

1 yankie

24th March 2008 - 07:39 PM

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Mar 24 2008, 07:19 PM)

Heck no, I"m taking your word for all this. No need to get the ad hominems about "pretending" going.

ad Hominems ? well thats how I took your post , Why wouldnt I ? LOL