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Full Version: Characteristics of a Cult and Cult Leader
Cactus Jim
People throw the word "Cult" around like it is merely a ready made insult to be used to denigrate religions we don't like. In fact "Cult" refers to groups that have identifiable characteristics. For all we know the ultimate answer to the questions of the universe may lie in a cult, though it's very unlikely. Here is a list of 14 characteristics that you will find are present in all of these groups. You can look at any group and judge how much they follow these characteristics to see how cultish they are. Jimmy Jones in Ghana, David Koresh at Waco, Joseph Smith, they all are near 100% in every category. Warren's FLDS is over the top on most of these things except for #2. Warren seems to think at this phase it's better to keep outsiders away and concentrate on tightening control over his existing members.

1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

3. The group is preoccupied with making money.

4. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

5. Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

6. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).

7. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).

8. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

9. The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

10. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

11. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

12. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
Cactus Jim
So, what kind of character are these Cult Leaders? They are certainly different from most of us. I know I couldn't do it because I'm not that audacious and not that ruthless. I'd not be able to stand in front of a group of people and tell them I am the word of God and they better hand over their wealth or that I expect to have sex with their wives and daughters.
From http://www.dannyhaszard.com/captivehearts.htm
QUOTE
Dr. Robert Hare, one of the world's foremost experts in the field, estimates that there are at least two million psychopaths in North America. He writes, "Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."


I'd say that pretty much describes Warren Jeffs doesn't it? It also describes Joseph Smith and the other Cult Leaders spot on. The Mormon polygamous groups are a special subset though because this is an established cult that's been around for many generations. Most cults don't survive their leader. In fact most cult leaders bring themselves and their cult to destruction.

Inheriting a cult might bring in a very different character than the original psychopath who founded it. In fact you find some polygamists and polyg groups that are pretty sane and rational. They are carrying on the religion they were raised in. But when you see a group that is continuing the isolation and control, the inbreeding and general nuttiness, I'd say the leader is pretty much a psychopathic cult leader in his own right.
Lara Avara
QUOTE (Cactus Jim @ May 11 2008, 06:54 AM)
So, what kind of character are these Cult Leaders? They are certainly different from most of us. I know I couldn't do it because I'm not that audacious and not that ruthless.

I could SO be a cult leader!
Cactus Jim
QUOTE (Lara Avara @ May 15 2008, 11:40 AM)
I could SO be a cult leader!

I'd follow you. What would'st thou have me do, Goddess?
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE (Lara Avara @ May 15 2008, 11:40 AM)
I could SO be a cult leader!

I don't buy it. Who'd follow you? You probably couldn't be den-mother among girl scouts.
Cactus Jim
QUOTE (Self Proclaimed Greatness @ May 16 2008, 10:39 AM)
I don't buy it.  Who'd follow you?  You probably couldn't be den-mother among girl scouts.

Hey Great, your personality is showing again. You don't know a dam thing about Lara but that doesn't stop you from acting like a plyg, does it.
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE (Cactus Jim @ May 16 2008, 10:43 AM)
Hey Great, your personality is showing again. You don't know a dam thing about Lara but that doesn't stop you from acting like a plyg, does it.

Should it? You don't know much about the people you are bashing. . . hasn't slowed you down much. I wouldn't like my ignorance of someone stop me from being me. Sheesh, if I lived like that I would have to kill myself.
chaster
QUOTE (Self Proclaimed Greatness @ May 16 2008, 05:39 PM)
I don't buy it. Who'd follow you? You probably couldn't be den-mother among girl scouts.

What in the sam hill? Great, it was lighthearted comment. How on earth could you have read anything deroggatory in it for crying out loud?

That is was maybe a jab at cult leaders? Weren't you just saying on another thread that you've never been any part of any sort of a cult? No sir, it was a culture you were part of, where decent and original thinking out of the box were encouraged. No cult leader worship going on here. Nope. So why are you being so defensive about a lighted hearted comment about cult leaders then?

Or was it the suggestion that a cult leader might could be woman? That just rubs you the wrong way, does it?

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from here, Great.
1 yankie
QUOTE (chaster @ May 16 2008, 11:59 AM)


I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from here, Great.


Hey Chaster , I'm not so sure ol LC didn't mean what he said as a joke also , he's been known to have a sense of humor from time to time , I mean , I don't know Lara all that much but If I were to guess being a girl scout leader isn't something she'd long for .

But even if she is a scout leader I bet it has its moments were a cult leader's traits would come in handy now and then .

Sometimes it strikes me odd that good ol Mr, positive and long on patience Cactus is up to his ears with scouting , I know , its the part of his Mormon heritage he just cant let go LOL. cool.gif
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE (chaster @ May 16 2008, 11:59 AM)
What in the sam hill? Great, it was lighthearted comment. How on earth could you have read anything deroggatory in it for crying out loud?

That is was maybe a jab at cult leaders? Weren't you just saying on another thread that you've never been any part of any sort of a cult? No sir, it was a culture you were part of, where decent and original thinking out of the box were encouraged. No cult leader worship going on here. Nope. So why are you being so defensive about a lighted hearted comment about cult leaders then?

Or was it the suggestion that a cult leader might could be woman? That just rubs you the wrong way, does it?

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from here, Great.

It was supposed to be a light hearted comment back. Why so defensive? Geez, anyone can be a den-mother.

Man!! Who's being defensive here?
Cactus Jim
QUOTE (Self Proclaimed Greatness @ May 16 2008, 10:39 AM)
I don't buy it. Who'd follow you? You probably couldn't be den-mother among girl scouts.

There wasn't anything light hearted or funny in that stupid post.
sayitaintso
QUOTE (Cactus Jim @ May 16 2008, 02:07 PM)
There wasn't anything light hearted or funny in that stupid post.

Yessir, you wanna be careful how you get too fast and loose with ignorant unfounded allegations. You might offend someone. Those should only be saved up to be used on the pligs, where outrageous prejudice can be justified.
Cactus Jim
QUOTE (sayitaintso @ May 16 2008, 02:14 PM)
Yessir, you wanna be careful how you get too fast and loose with ignorant unfounded allegations. You might offend someone. Those should only be saved up to be used on the pligs, where outrageous prejudice can be justified.

Right on. Good observation there, Say.
chaster
I guess maybe we have a different concept of humor. I think humor can be a very healing social behavior, a recognition that we’re all in this boat together, which often comes as a huge relief. Laughter, see, of the healing sort is an expression of being so darned relieved that we’re not completely alone here. Others are in the same predicament that is the human condition and then the human condition isn’t quite so lonely and frightening as before.

As in, when I was a boy, my Dad insisted to me that there’s not a darned thing in the dark that isn’t just as much there when it’s light. Now why didn’t I find that thought comforting?

True, it kind of pokes fun at my Dad, but it also pokes fun at me too because we’re both up against these same frightening things that scare the beejeezus out of us but not so badly that we’re paralyzed by fear. Laughing at it helps in not getting paralyzed by fear. It’s a social behavior that is vital to us when the shit has hit the fan big time.

And then there’s the humor that is also a social bonding behavior but for a different purpose. Kind of along the lines of the Pollack joke, for example. I apologize in advance here for this example that threatens to reveal me to be as much a redneck as the rednecks I often criticize but just to illustrate the point: How many Pollacks does it take to lead a horse to drink water? Two, one to lead the horse to water, and the other to suck on his ass. It’s also a feeling of relief but not about being in a shared predicament but being relieved to be within the superior tribe instead of that other tribe that is worthy of nothing but derision and contempt. This is useful for a bonding experience within a tribe prior to putting the kybosh on another tribe.

It’s a fuzzy line sometimes, but we all kind of know it when we see either kind.

The great thing about this country, after all, is that we can laugh at ourselves, and by ourselves, I mean you, and by laugh, I mean invade. (stolen joke. Sorry, can’t remember the author.)

In defense of my waxing so philosophical here, all I can say is, hey, he started it.
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE ("chaster")
I guess maybe we have a different concept of humor.


I don't think so. I think maybe you guys got a little defensive. I don't have any issues with Lara Avara. She was making a funny about how she is capible of being all of the bad things Jim was pointing out about cult leaders, manipulation, mind control, etc. I was saying, "not."

And perhaps being a little truthful, I can imagine her sitting among the girl scouts trying to fit in, rather then trying to manipulate their minds and belief systems. If you and Jim want to think I was bashing her. . . . oh well. If you won't take a simple explanation for clarification, that there was no ill intent, that simply gives support to my opinion of Jim, (but not chaster.) I have higher expectations from chaster.

Jim, with all of his "name calling" is just strange. I'm honestly have a hard time taking him seriously. Is he being funny calling me a plig-apologist? Plig-kid? These are the sorts of expressions I would expect from a teenage bully. I'm not sure if he is just trying to irritate me, or if he is being serious, or something else. Not that it matters. . . . I've read most of his posts and I think he really believes what he is saying. . . . . which just blows the mind.

QUOTE ("jim")
You don't know a dam thing about Lara but that doesn't stop you from acting like a plyg, does it.


Acting like a plyg? I mean. . . like seriously . . . . what is that supposed to mean? Are plygs dumb? Rude? Hateful? What does this mean? What does the number of my parents have to do with the way I acted?
Lara Avara
QUOTE (Self Proclaimed Greatness @ May 16 2008, 10:39 AM)
I don't buy it. Who'd follow you? You probably couldn't be den-mother among girl scouts.

I'll remember you said that when you're selling flowers for me at the airport.
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE (Lara Avara @ May 19 2008, 12:41 PM)
I'll remember you said that when you're selling flowers for me at the airport.

Obviously you are ambitious.
Lara Avara
QUOTE (Self Proclaimed Greatness @ May 19 2008, 12:56 PM)
Obviously you are ambitious.

Mostly, I'm in it for the sexual perks.
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE (Lara Avara @ May 19 2008, 01:02 PM)
Mostly, I'm in it for the sexual perks.

I wonder what would happen if Fabio started a cult. . . . . Poor Warren would have to shut down his shop.
chaster
I wonder why we don't see more women in the cult leader field anyway. Speaking for myself, I'd much rather obey a goddess than some old geezer.

About the closest thing to that I can think of was the rock and roll band of the 60s and 70s, the Jefferson Airplane / Starship. Rumor has it that Grace Slick pretty much wielded absolute power through sex. You couldn't perform to the expectations of Ms. Slick, pretty soon you were out of the Jefferson Airplane / Starship. Even the band's founder, whose name escapes me, which itself illustrates the cruel authority of Ms. Slick, was discarded. Oh boo hoo for him, his successor said, until the same exact thing in turn happened to him, God's Dad. What was God's Dad's name? It's on the tip of my tongue. They had a child, see, and named him God. I wonder how God faired? What's God up to these days?

Oh the 60s. In the 60s, the main thing we accomplished was to provide a huge boost in the careers of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Pat Robertson. That and that sex is used a lot more in advertising now than it was in the 50s.

What I really miss from the 60s, though, is the optimism.
chaster
Paul Kantner. Was God's Dad, I believe.
Lara Avara
QUOTE (Self Proclaimed Greatness @ May 19 2008, 08:59 AM)

And perhaps being a little truthful, I can imagine her sitting among the girl scouts trying to fit in, rather then trying to manipulate their minds and belief systems

For the record, I frequently do outreach activities (fish, wildlife, outdoorsy stuff) with school groups, girl scouts, etc., and they think I'm awesome.
Cactus Jim
QUOTE (Lara Avara @ May 20 2008, 02:24 PM)
For the record, I frequently do outreach activities (fish, wildlife, outdoorsy stuff) with school groups, girl scouts, etc., and they think I'm awesome.

Lara, I'd give my eye tooth to have you as a Den Leader. Our buddy Great here doesn't know anything about you but he blows a lot of stupid anyway because - well, he's a plig kid. He doesn't know anything about scouts either because polyg dads don't have time to do family activities of that nature. Hell, they are doing well if they remember a kids name. Anyway, Ya, lara as scout leader, Wow!
Self Proclaimed Greatness
QUOTE (Lara Avara @ May 20 2008, 02:24 PM)
For the record, I frequently do outreach activities (fish, wildlife, outdoorsy stuff) with school groups, girl scouts, etc., and they think I'm awesome.

I'll accept that, even if you say so yourself. I commend you for the outreach programs. They're very helpful.

I'm just a stupid plig-kid, but we did that sort of thing all the time. Well, except the fishing part, we had to travel for that. Camping was often, hiking, camping trips. I sometimes regret we didn't have professional rock climbers to teach us, but we did OK.

My sister Rachel (another stupid plig kid) helps with a "ropes program" in St. George. I always wanted to do that.

But since you've made it so clear that you can be cult leader, as you do have adoring followers . . . . does that make you like Warren? How do you feel about that and do you think it will help your chances of getting into heaven? Do you think that more kids that think you are "awesome" will affect your exaltation and heavenly glory, or could you care less?

Jim has actually made me feel like a lesser person by not knowing you . . . . so you are well on your way in cult leadership. Wow!
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