THE POWER IN THE PROPHET
May 19, 2008

QUOTE (”street”)
Oh yes, it’s like a Warren Commission. There is power that cannot be avoided by anyone on this earth, even if it is rejected.

JOHN SAID: I guess I don’t understand that, the commission part. Many people have power on the earth that I don’t like and cannot avoid. But I am curious about Warren’s power. In the scope of things. . . . being just one small planet among trillions, how does Warren’s power rate in you? To hear some of his followers, it’s like he is next in line for the throne of heaven.

REPLY: Many people having power that you don’t like and yet cannot avoid, bears out this fact, doesn’t it. But when a still small voice, soft and mesmerizing, filled and cutting as a two-edged sword, is in the similitude of the meek and mild Christ Jesus Himself, and is in fact commissioned of Him in the secret place, it is a light that cannot be hidden, nor its power avoided to all eternity. Yes, that power is next in line, and in fact sits on a throne already, before a mocking generation. There is ONE MAN at a time, and he rules over that generation that lived in his day, and will soon sit enthroned over that entire generation. Though they be cast into the underworlds, they will have to answer to him for eternity, as if he were a god. There are gods many for this very purpose, saith the Lord Himself (John 10:34).


QUOTE (”street”)
It came from my own curiosity in that man, Warren, years ago.

JOHN SAID: I don’t want to call people dumb, because quite frankly, they have every right to be as smart as me, but what is worthy of curiosity about Warren? In one of the greatest stories of all times, (Lord of the Rings) is a character named Sharuman. His magic was the power of his voice and his words. And asking your indulgence, Warren’s situation sort of reminds me of this. The results of his work seems ruin and wreckage, but as you said, the power is not to be avoided. But from whence does this power come. . . . and why your support of it? Most of Warren’s follows are “under” his power, yet you are almost parallel with it, supportive, understanding, and loving it.

REPLY: Jesus was “like a lamb dumb before His shearer. In His humiliation his judgment was taken away, and who shall declare His generation? (Acts 8:32). “I saw the woman (the whore, the world) drunken with the blood of the saints” (Rev.17:6), which is the apparent victory over the woman or bride of Christ, His seed which declare His generation in this last generation of the world. The Prophet’s very voice, the power in it, the life-giving light or spirit-element, which is the chi, the bread of life flowing with power within, that is what is worthy of my curiosity. Like Sharuman, his magic is the power of his voice and his words, for they cut as a two-edged sword (the spirit-word), for by the word, the worlds were created.

Jesus on the Cross seemed also to be ruin and wreckage, did He not? That is the nature of the forces of nature and the powers that be, until like Pharaoh, the Power of God in Moses brought the rulers to absolute ruin, and mighty Egypt has never been great to this day, while Israel has shaped every nation under the heavens, according to the promise. “By thy seed shall all nations be blessed” (Gen.12:3). This Priesthood heritage has come down in regular succession to Warren Jeffs, and the same humiliation, ruin, power, or dependency on God is most evident today, as you have just confessed. You sense it yourself, you know, because the power of God still strives with some. That continued flame was passed down to you through the lineage of your fathers, regardless of their human failings.

JOHN ASKED: Can you explain your connection with the “spirit” a little better?

REPLY: It begins with the works of faith (M), and then it grows unto repentance from afar (Y), into the baptism of Joyful Service (Mm), the door of the temple, and finally into the sanctuary or unity of the heart or temple, through the laying on of hands of ONE in authority, for the Gift of the Holy Spirit upon ONE who has laid the foundation of the gates of heaven. See, before the Holy Spirit can ever take hold (and it seldom does), there must be works dedicated unto him in faith, and a full repentance from afar as one may be called. “Know ye not that your bodies are the temple of God? (I Cor.6:19). “Therefore, that temple which is defiled, I will destroy” (Ps.79:1, D&C 93:35). Sacrifice first, the works of faith unto him, and the sacrifice of the immoral passions. Then cometh the opportunity for a full baptism of water and of fire (Binah and Chokmah), and then, ONLY THEN, can there be an effective baptism of that Holy Spirit element through the medium of ONE channel (“the Narrow Way”), given of God Himself, “for I am a God of Order, and not a God of confusion” (I Cor.14:33).

But Wait! That only takes you to the sanctuary of the heart and the temple, but that gives you some resemblance of a connection with the Prophet and with the Heavens. Then you begin the work itself, which is infinite, as infinite as eternity itself. This is how “Warren’s power rates from a spec among trillions of planets, for there are gods many, but ONE GOD over us, the father or the Prophet over the people of this generation, and the Lord Jesus over the people of this earth. It is a hierarchy of jurisdictions, by inheritance, preordained in the heavens according to mens’ prior development, and we can know this is the man by the meekness, the boldness, the dependancy, and the strict fulfilling of every word of scripture. From that spec or Daat, that perfect knowledge or treasure in him, that link chosen of God for our day, comes a blooming, a vast expansion, or a “big bang” of creation under his eternal supervision, for there are “gods many”, and an infinite hierarchy of Gods, from one Priesthood family to a city, to planet, a Zodiac, a cluster, a galaxy, a universe, a cluster of universes, to infinity, ONE GOD over each system or entity, without beginning or end, a vast brotherhood of gods, from ONE FAMILY, and without beginning or end.

That ought to be enough jerky for you to chew on for awhile, until your teething improves and your digestion able to handle more solid foods. Then the diaper doesn't get quite so full of it, see? Just kidding.

Street

ONE MAN, WARREN JEFFS
May 20,2008
Polyg Talk forum

JOHN SAID: Though I accepted this sort of thought as a child, it really doesn’t make sense to me. It’s too “divided” for me. I mean, say that it was true, and for the sort time my father was “the one man” so to speak. (I know, FLDS never recognized him as that.) But say even Bro. Rulon, maybe I liked him more then Warren. Do I get to be part of his generation? What if I don’t even like him? Maybe I want Bro. Johnson. Do I live is a different section of town in the heavens? Do I go to a different church, a different ward?

REPLY: There are temple ordinances that create a direct link to eternity, that seal children to parents, women to men, and men to men, eternally. So you don’t get any of them until you gain the confidence to perfectly unite with them, and then you find that they are not separated, but are an Eternal Council. Then you are sealed to one eternally, as the gods are sealed together into the heavenly family. Truly righteous men, as gods, as Adams over their righteous and faithful families, are sealed to that one man who was holder of the keys when they finally perfected themselves sufficiently to be worthy to be grafted into the family of a “god in his own right”. There’s the difference: Men becoming gods by their perfection, and then they can be sealed to a higher god which is termed “a God in his own right”. That is the man who takes the other gods and their families as a colony to create and populate new worlds. He has claim on all other beings and generations who fell away from this highest glory under his administration, when they are ready to join Him, for the higher worlds minister unto the lower. Until then, it is just "Here pig pig pig pig" (Matt.7:6, Prov.11:22).



JOHN SAID: See, I’ve come to understand that “spirit” rules and while it may choose specific personality to express itself, the person or the “soul” never really rules anything. As we learn to listen to the spirit, the need for “rulers” disappears.

REPLY: The person or the soul IS spirit, which comes to rule WHEN it is perfected. Then what was once a stewardship soul becomes an inherited soul, or worthy to go on to life eternal, as possessors of themselves, or the Tiferet: True Self, the perfected and unified soul.



JOHN SAID: The corporate world has learned this and has tried to “flatten” the hierarchy and made even the low man an important part of the company. The idea of “teams” is taking the corporate world and the “Team Spirit” more or less rules, with a “Team Leader” (a specialist in Team Spirit) guiding and keeping order.

REPLY: The corporate world is worldly, and thus companies go the way of all the earth in the service of their demons, for God is a God of Order and not confusion. A flattened hierarchy is just that, FLAT. What is so beautiful or desirable about being flat. Ask any woman, as any food-lover, ask any owner of a car with tires, ask anyone involved in an altercation who is knocked FLAT. The order of the heavens is endless height and endless depth and breadth, never FLAT. Only fools think the world is FLAT.



JOHN SAID: But even the Team Leader doesn’t really have authority. See, to me, the ONE MAN rule denies the power of the spirit. Granted, I understand that here in the lower worlds, 3D that we have some need for a ruler(s). But in the higher worlds, I don’t see the need. If I have the spirit and you have the spirit, and we are “one” with the spirit, who need rule over us?

REPLY: The One Man IS the spirit, having advanced from a mere steward of his soul, to an eternal inheritance. Then he has every right for all mankind under Him, as God, to worship him as One Spirit. The wicked Lamanites and every apostate in history, were so because of a repulsion to uniting with One God, One Spirit, One Man, saying those very words: "Who need rule over us"? God is Spirit. God is Priesthood. Priesthood is God with us. That’s the whole issue of life, and what we came here to learn, to rebel no more, but to unite in that One Spirit, in a God in His own right. Until we do that, we will drift from earth to hell, to another earth to hell, and another, and another, for aeons and kalpas, without every reaching Godhood or any heaven at all, for Heaven is the immergence and the Union of all things into that one work, one seed, one joy, one truth, one thought, one love, one light, one spirit, until there is a full radiance of light and love. Hell is the confusion and scattering and destruction of these things, in what we call “returning to native element”.



JOHN SAID: Well, Street, I was just on-line and I found a place where some of Warren sermons are published. Would you be open to discussing some of his thoughts? You don’t have to, but reading through some of his thoughts . . . .I’d like to discuss the “spirit” of what I read in his thoughts. . . . Would you be open to that? I wouldn’t want to offend you, if think you they are too sacred. But I figured, if anyone understands him, maybe you would. What do you think?

REPLY: Never is there an offense in discussing that man in me, but shear joy, for I find him as blunt and offensive to evil as Jesus Christ Himself.


Street

FANTASY vs REALITY
AntiChrist vs Christ
May 22, 2008

JOHN SAID: What are your thoughts?

REPLY: My thoughts? About what. Do you mind repeating what you just said. Oh, first of all, what did you say? To speak the Word of the Lord, and then to live it strictly and honorably, is not presuming erroneously the position of “realm of the Lords, but you have confessed to doing that yourself. See? You’re just applying the Gospel through a confused and clouded lens, and in a rather juvenile way I might add. This is why during your previous speal on these blogs you assigned to yourself the title: Lord Challen, as any worldly juvenile would identify themselves with superman or batman, spiderman, and the like. Just fantasy. The Lord and His Prophets are NOT fantasy, and that is what you are confusing here, fantasy and reality.

You say: “We cannot handle that layer of truth, our personalities are too weak”, and I say, as Miles Standish said to John Alden when John was trying to tell Miles how much Miles loved a certain woman, in the “Courtship of Miles Standish”: “Speak for yourself, John”. Just because YOU cannot handle the truth, does not put that blanked accusation on the entire world, like Texas authorities and various juvenile malcontents can’t handle the truth, so they literally threw up blankets and quilts to throw over the entire mess (that would be their own shit) that they created for themselves. You are still blaming the whole world for your problems, subconsciously if not consciously, which simply plunges you into the john (that would be a self-imposed hell), and puts others miles ahead (that would be a self-determined heaven).

JOHN SAID: There are “REASONS” for the separation between us and the Realm of Lords.

REPLY: With saints, the veil gets thinner and thinner, until there is no separation at all. Having come from the FLDS, the realm of the Lords (if you choose to call it that), I’d think that you would have had some awareness of that, but much is pushed aside when you suffer the sins of your fathers.

JOHN SAID: Those that trend across the line risk damaging their personality… I’ve seen those that crossed that line that just went insane and didn’t leave much of a person except that could held together with medicine.

REPLY: This is only true of the impure, making themselves unprotected from the power, and exposing themselves to the wrath that comes when unholy things tread upon things holy. I realize that you’ve been on meds, and been through extensive reprogramming, so there you go.

JOHN SAID: But of you, I would think that you understand the concept of Spirit to know that it is beyond what can contained in one man. I cannot tell if Warren actually thinks he is this Layer of Reality, or if he is just twisting the things that he sees. I’ve heard things about Warren from some close sources that make me wonder if he really believes it.

REPLY: Yes, the saints understand and believe. No one else can, if they are not saints, for sainthood is the product of understanding (Binah), and of the other nine gates or chambers of the Tree of Life. Just because the spirit is broad and universal, hardly means that it cannot fill a person. You are correct in saying that you “cannot tell” the difference between things, as you just now confessed. Not much more to say, is there. Purify your body and surroundings, add prayer and holy music, your former FLDS teachings before the split, and the cloud of darkness will begin to abate. Without that, and the sexual habits of those who would be masters (or in the “realm of Lords”, as you call it), without that, they merely master-bate and abuse themselves and their children, even in their official callings in government, while equating the meek and pure as themselves, abusive and corrupt in all that they do. This is why the Lord says that the wicked world will pass away.

Now, just to close, I will quote what you just quoted of the Prophet Warren: “Remember, people are afraid of the prophet when they have a guilty conscience”. That pretty well sums up what we are talking about here. The Prophet always has the last word, and the first, and everything in between, if we are one united light and spirit. “The prophet just thinks a prayer and the Lord's spirit puts the words in his thoughts”. That has been my experience, under the guidance of this man and his father, back to Father Adam.


Street

THE HEADLESS CHICKEN
May 22, 2008

"Tell me about your experience to back to Father Adam? How did that go?"

REPLY: It doesn't go, not without the sealings back to Father Adam. My experience is in reference to the revelations.

You say: "Up until Bro. Johnson died, we acknowledged him as head. We just chose not to follow. We never betrayed Bro. Johnson, he betrayed us".

So, you acknowlege a lie, you own deception, since you acknowledged as the head what you yourselves deemed to be an error, a betrayal, yet you considered him right if you considered him your head. After all, nobody considers anybody the head of anything over them, if at the same time they acknowledge it as an error and a betrayal, manipulated into an error by others. Thus, you cut off your own head, and that brings death. Do you see the folly of your reason, or are you still as clear as mud, like a chicken still alive, but flapping about with its head cut off, calling fantasy truth, and truth fantasy, or calling good evil, and evil good.

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter, that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight”.

Having said that, it does not always apply to you, when you are in defense of the truth, like you was when you started blogging again a few days ago. Sometimes, flashes of light and truth do come through, and again: The more you purify yourself, physically and sexually, and sanctify yourself in prayer and sacred song, the more of the spirit will fill your being and cast out every demon into the swine round about. I guess Jesus can reattach a decapitated head. Look at John.

You will find that no matter what the CP's claim the Barlows did to manipulate Uncle Roy, in every instance it was according to the word of God. Name one objection, just one for now (your choice), and I will show it to be in perfect harmony with the Word of the Lord, which makes it truth, does it not?

Street

QUOTE (street)
You will find that no matter what the CP's claim the Barlows did to manipulate Uncle Roy, in every instance it was according to the word of God. Name one objection, just one for now (your choice), and I will show it to be in perfect harmony with the Word of the Lord, which makes it truth, does it not?


REMENISCENCES
May 24, 2008

JOHN SAID: I found it a little ironic that Bro. Johnson’s creed, (Keep Sweet) became the mocking accuser of your people. Barlow boys would roll down their windows and spit at me as they drove by. Men and women that I went to school with would turn their head to ignore me…Did we treat you coldly? Do we call you “apostates” or devils? I don’t care so much what you believe, or who your worship, but the way your people treated us speaks against your saintliness.

REPLY: Such are not our people. These are the kinds that get cast out by the Prophet. When you say “Barlow BOYS” would spit, that is probably exactly right (BOYS). I’ll bet they were teenagers, right? And what happened to such “Lost Boys”? The Prophet told them to get lost, right? You were right to be concerned and incensed. You should have gone straight to Uncle Roy, and he would have excommunicated them right then and there! I would. Such behaviour is the spirit of a Jew crucifying their Lord (no pun intended, or in this case it is, Lord Challen). By the way, I’m a staunch FLDS from afar, and yet I’m not giving you no cold shoulder, am I. I jive you at times, but that is only because it is so much fun, and always with a lesson embedded, and you always take it pretty good. Why? Because of your intelligence. You are not entirely juvenile.

By the way, let it be clear and quite obvious with my above challenge that you are here replying to, that when we say “Barlows” with Uncle Roy, we are referring to the leading brethren who were around him, the sons of Uncle John, right? No snotty-nosed kids who would spit and harass and carry on as juveniles were ever close enough to Uncle Roy to have his ear and respect as counselors. I think we can agree with that. But wait!!! You may have witnessed some harassment even from those leading elders, and look where they are today: Excommunicated. The Lord has the men in position that He does to try the souls of men. How else could there be a trial of souls?



JOHN SAID: I admit that I openly rebelled against my leaders a number of times and I feel no shame in it. I rebelled against God too, because I was of the mind that if God wanted me to hate, or to offend someone for the sake of my salvation, then I’d find another God to worship.

REPLY: FLDS silence and meditation and doing as angels who do not tread where fools tread, that is not hatred, but wisdom.



JOHN SAID: The fact that he signed over the UEP upset a lot of people, but they went through the lawsuit to get their properties. Which by the way, is weird to me. I mean, why do you assume that those people don’t deserve some rewards of the work they did. That is just natural law.

REPLY: Yes, and “the natural man is an enemy to God” (Mosial 3:19). “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him. Neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ” (I Cor.2:14).

The reward in the Work of God is heaven, not earth, and when you consecrate property and money and time, you do just that, consecrate (“to dedicate, set apart, give over”), a free-will offering, freely given to the Lord and His earthly cause, which means that you never ask it back. Yes, you can, but then it cuts you off from the consecration and you no longer belong, see? But the UEP Trust documents specifically stated that the President shall have the final say in all matters, which means that he has the final say, acting for God. Pretty straight-forward.

HEY BUD! This post of yours is pretty LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! It’s like the big bang! Got more to say, so I’ll finish later, baby! Just an expression, so don’t go sucking your thumb, or start wearing dresses.


Street

May 25, 2008
REMENISCENCES-2
To Finish What I Wanted To Say

JOHN SAID: Granted, I SORT OF abandoned them anyway, but only because I actually went seeking my PATH. I didn’t abandon them because they believe differently, or because think they are going to hell, and when I go back, it is all hugs and loves.

REPLY: Now you know how TIRED I was the other night, to put off these final thoughts until now. My bwain just wouldn’t woik any mowe, twy as I may, so then I laid me down to sleep, and asked the Lord my soul to keep. And then: BOING: Bwight-eyed and bushy-tailed again, to join from under my slumbers, renewed light for the cause of men.

“Sort of” is a good qualifier, as you said (above). To seek the Lord is NOT to abandon any duty to family, but quite the opposite (Matt.10:34). They too are seeking, and God will bless them. The spirit whispered to you what was right, like many prophets who abandoned society for a wilderness or to live in a cave where they can be free from conflict and contradiction, to find the spirit of the Lord, which is the spirit of peace. “Thou wilt show me the PATH of life. In Thy presence is fullness of joy. At Thy right hand there are pleasures forevermore” (Psalm 16:11).



JOHN SAID: And as I hope you have noticed, I’m just as quick to jump to your defense and your right to pursue your faith as I am criticize Warren Jeffs. Again, I’m not sure I like his spirit. It has a form of Godliness. . . . .He has convinced them that HE IS GOD (to some extent) and therefore it is OK…

REPLY: Yah, I noticed you’re quite broad-minded that way. It’s one thing I like about you. “We believe in worshipping God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may”. Now little one, what don’t you like about his spirit? Let’s discuss that, since you are “not sure”, for he has convinced saints of the truth, that we are ALL GODS in embryo.

So, even though he has NEVER called himself a god, this certainly makes him so, and that is certainly OK, as you so well put it (above). Then, men who follow the strictest Order of God's Word as he does, no matter what, even at the cost of prison, certainly become so, following after the trial and glory of the prophets before him. For "All that will live Godly in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution" (2 Tim.3:12). What man on this earth suffers more today for Christ's Word, than the Prophet Warren Jeffs? None other.

Street

DELETED

WARREN JEFFS-1
May 27, 2008

JH: Street, why deleted post? REPLY: I’d posted one on the wrong thread. It is in my OTS thread.

JH: And why are you repenting from afar? I mean, I respect any attempt to repent, but then again, it needs to be done carefully. REPLY: Define “carefully”. Why the qualifier: “I respect…But…”?

JH: One of the issues that I have with Warren is this idea that people must repent from afar. According to this theory, Warren himself is repenting from afar. REPLY: See, he preaches repentance like a true prophet, and then practices what he preaches. This is proof positive that he does indeed, with his confessions and all, like God Himself repented and confessed, from Genesis to Revelation, since these are eternal principles and God is eternal:

“And it repented the Lord that He had made man” (Gen.6:6). “I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels (Rev.3:5). The meekest are the most righteous, and Warren showed the greatest meekness in his confession, “even though it is not so” as he put it, referring to his apostasy. But the Lord must contribute to the delusion and deception of the people, through His prophet, to give them what they want (Isaiah 66:4).

JH: Again, I’ve nothing against repenting, but I think he is abusing the idea. I don’t think that FLDS abuse their children, I think they abuse themselves with their expectations of perfection. REPLY: “Be ye perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Mt.5:48). See, it is fully expected, and commanded. Is the fulfillment of the law abuse?

JH: One of the Eternal Elements of Life is “perfection.” We all want to be perfect, it is a drive from the deep well of life, from which all things flow. However, the spirit of perfection is to teach and correct, not to judge or condemn. Because we think we are perfect, we seek to hide our sins, or if our sins our out in the open, we are ashamed to show our acknowledgement of our imperfections. REPLY: This is the typical human response, isn’t it? But it takes a man who is more than human to judge and to condemn according to the commandment, and then to confess his own sins, “even though it is not so”:

“Ye hypocrites…Why judge not what is right”? (Luke 12:56-57). “As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father” (John 5:30). Throughout the Prophet’s sermons, he says: “Father wants this… Father asked me to tell you that…I want only my father’s will to be done here”. We all heard it, and now you can all read it. Proof positive that he judges right, “Because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father” (John 5:30). Judgment and condemnation teaches and directs man the besyt. “For whosoever I love, I rebuke and chasten” (Rev.3:19). So now you have witnessed to the world the Prophet Warren Jeffs, and have confirmed that he fulfills the law, because you have witnessed that he judges and condemns, which is according to the commandment.

WARREN JEFFS-2

JH: But IMHO, we are never perfect, not even after millions of years of growth and “perfecting” ourselves, and yet, we are already perfect. (One of the opposing profound truths.) Truth happens, and therefore, there is perfection, even in our messed up condition. The universe is always in perfect balance, and oddly, so are we. But our perspectives are not, and because of our veil, we do not always see the balance. REPLY: Well put. God is perfect, and yet advances from perfection to perfection, from glory to glory. Perfection pertains to our present probation, how perfectly we fulfill it. Zen Koans are paradoxical truths that lead to paradisical glory.

JH: Repenting is GOOD, BUT in the case of the FLDS, it goes against the concept of a whole people. REPLY: “Good, BUT…” is the qualifier that compromises the good, the curve or diversion that turns unto evil. “I the Lord do not look upon sin with the least degree of allowance” (D&C 1:31). If the Lord in His mercy has set men apart or afar, through His love in His prophet, you should glorify God and thank Him for that prophet who set men afar or apar to be whatever influence they can be upon the children of men.

There are degrees of glory, and within the highest it is the strictest and the most concealed, even as God is concealed, and in this highest degree He commands: “Come out, and BE NOT PARTAKERS” (Rev.18:4). But the saints in the highest degree will administer to those in the lower degrees, through the prophets on the earth, and those turned angels, throughout the eternities. Therefore, there is no man more Christ-like today than Warren Jeffs, no man more hated and persecuted for God’s Word, and therefore the most Christ-like, as God says: “Ye shall be hated of all men” (Matt.10:22). “Whoso liveth godly in Christ Jesus SHALL suffer persecution” (2 Tim.3:12).

JH: To create a belief that some people are not worthy goes against what Christ taught. REPLY: “Whatsoever town or city ye enter, inquire who is worthy…If they be unworthy, let your peace return unto you (Matt.10:11-13).

JH: It was Christ that out among the sinners, drinking, chatting, turning the water into wine, etc. (Talk about an alcoholic’s best friend.) I mean, you’re pretty much insane, but I think you are more Christ-like then Warren. . . . and that is still stretching it. You are more willing to talk to the people you feel need the truth instead of just the ones that you can control. REPLY: You can only thank the Prophet for that. Gods, angels, and prophets are naturally more aloof, because they live a higher glory. I only try in my own weaknesses (or insanity) to do this prophet’s will, so any who benefit can only thank the Lord for this prophet. He is an eternal benefactor.

WARREN JEFFS-3

JH: Christ, as far as I can tell, sought to teach people correct principle and rejoiced as it worked in their lives. Warren sends those away that don’t meet his “standards”, (whatever they are.) One of the things that Bro. Johnson and all of the other brethren have taught since my earliest memory is “The Gathering.” Warren departed from all of that and instead of “gathering people” has been breaking them up, sending them away, etc. REPLY: Since Joseph, and even with Christ, the gathering is a continual sifting, until all the chaff is sifted, and the purest fruit remains. We saw it when the Church apostatized, and ever since, a sifting with every prophet, until the purest fruit is GATHERED. See, the gathering.

“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles”? (Matt.7:16). “I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matt.10:34), to divide asunder. “If the evil say, My Lord delayeth His coming, and shall begin to smite (or raid) his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, the Lord…shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt.24:48-51).

JH: I have some knowledge of the Spirit of God/Christ. It tells me, “come unto me.” Those that seek me, shall find me.” This whole “go away until you have repented” has nothing to do with the spirit of Christ or God. REPLY: I too often thought I had the Spirit of God, and found it was not so. All the Prophets since Adam, and in our day since Joseph, even down to Warren Jeffs, said the same: “Come unto me”, but WHO? The proud, the cauky, the immoral? No, “All ye that labor (those in the Work), and are heavy laden” (alighted with the strictest standards, for it is the Celestial), and I will give you rest” (Matt.11:28).

What does the Lord say of those who do not? “These shall be cast out. These are they who shall be cast down to hell: They who received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant (eternal marriage sealings), who shall not be gathered with the saints to be caught up unto the Church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud. These are they who are liars, sorcerers, adulterers, whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie” (D&C 76:101-103).

JH: There have been some social events/stories through Mormon history that indicated that some men thought the presences of sinners held the spirit of the Lord back. This is a copout. I’ve known lesser spirits to stay away due to the presences of some people, but the spirit of the Lord has bowed to no one that I know of. REPLY: “The Spirit of God is easily grieved”. The “unclean spirit” is a devil (Matt.12:43). The presence of evil is the presence of unclean spirits, and it is the opposite of the Spirit of God. “No man can serve two masters” (Matt.6:24). The copout is when “the unclean spirit is CAST OUT” (Matt.12:43). “Fools rush in where angels fear to tread”. Good and evil cannot occupy the same space, for one or the other must flee.

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JH: To say that the spirit of the Lord cannot come down and bless those that deserve because of the sinners is to say that the Spirit of the Lord is shy and cannot protect the saints in time of need. The spirit of the lord was unable to do something, it is because NO ONE was worthy of the blessing be asked. REPLY: The Holy Spirit cannot come except to destroy what is unholy (Is.13:9). Again, good and evil cannot occupy the same space, any more that a good apple occupies the same space as a bad apple in a bushel. The space of the apples themselves are distinct and separate. The bad MUST be cast out, or the whole bushel goes bad. Makes sense (Luke 3:17).

JH: The Spirit of God/Christ is into maturity, not elitism. REPLY: True Elitism IS maturity. “Behold my servant whom I uphold, mine elect (or elite), in whom my soul delighteth. I have put my spirit upon him. He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles” (Isaiah 42:1). It has already begun, the removing of the constitutional mortar that held the nation together. “The constitution now hangs by only a thread”, and Warren Jeffs is that thread (JS: White Horse Prophecy: http://ogdenkraut.com/files/White_Horse.htm)

JH: The children do not mature properly by tossing them out into the street. And even if they did, then they are would be the mature ones and those who stayed would not be mature. The Lords that I know would not cast out members just because they needed to repent. REPLY: “I tell you, except ye repent, ye shall ALL LIKEWISE PERISH” (Luke 13:3). The saints are to be a chosen people, an ELECT people, and to forgive ONLY those who repent, saith the Lord: “Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, REBUKE him, and IF he repent, forgive” (Luke 17:3).

JH: If I were a lord, it would make sense to me to ask the good members to help the members that need repenting. REPLY: DONE! You and the world have witnessed it, many years of seed time and harvest (apostacies: Gen.8:22), from Genesis to Revelation, and now the final harvest (Rev.14:15).

JH: But enough of that. Another thing that continues to disturb me is the idea that Warren has suffered “more then any other man for truth.” First off, I don’t think Warren has suffered that much. I’ve people many people suffer much more than he, in fact, I think many of his followers suffer more then he. I think you have suffered more then he. Most holy men would find prison to be a heaven with a small cell, little to do but think and pray. Sometimes I wonder what I could do get on the inside.

REPLY: Only if you are the elect (elected), can you enter and partake of the glory of suffering for Christ, and then ascending the throne. This Prophet has more wives than any man, and has lost them all, and now his entire community also threatened. So he has suffered more than any man in what counts most to a man. For further proof, look at the original meanings:

Suffer: “Elohiym: Mighty Judgment”. “Anechomai: To put up with; long-suffering”, which he did with his father for 40-years. A key Mormon doctrine is the transformation of manhood into godhood, as a head god over a people (elohiym). Suffering has little to do with the space you occupy, but is within the soul. “Ashem: A sin offering”. “Atimazo: To render infamous by maltreatment”. Suffer: “Aphiemi: Laid aside, left alone, omitted, sent away”. I’d say it fits the Prophet to the tee. There is ten-times more than this on the meaning of the term, if you want to see it.

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JH: I’m sure that Warren suffers, but not more then his due, which probably isn’t that much. Jail wasn’t invented for Warren, he wasn’t the first there and won’t be the last. I think 160 mothers suffered more then he has in just the last couple of months. REPLY: Ahh, neither did Christ suffer more than His due, for His due was to die for the sins of the world. That was His due, which of course wasn’t that much to the Jews and the Romans who slew Him. After all, jail wasn’t invented for Jesus. Who the hell does He, God, think He is? Would you agree that He suffered more than any man? Yet He was only dead for three days, and sits on the Throne. Now pray tell, what suffering is that? Give John a break!

JH: If all things are part of a plan, and God wants Warren to suffer . . . . then who I am to stop it? I don’t really feel sorry for the prophets. . . . they can take care of themselves. But I do tend to seek justice for the women and children. REPLY: See? He who suffered for the whole world, yet us little pip-squeeks suffer more, you say? Now, Warren isn’t Christ. We are comparing the persecuted with their families and the world at large. Who suffers more, the persecuted leaders, or their families and the world? Who is more LONG-SUFFERING? Not much length to suffering when you’re not omitted and made part of a mighty judgment (“Elohiym”). Enoch was rejected by the whole world, and His town was omitted from the earth itself: Long-suffered.

JH: I understand that you think that Warren is a prophet. REPLY: Now I do, all the more.

JH: But I think that there are areas of his teachings that breed weakness in the people, i.e., sending the strong people off to repent and leave the women and children to the “monsters” to watch. REPLY: Are not monsters STRONG? In fact, they are the strongest. Bzzzzzzzzz.

JH: How do you feel about Merrill Jessop? Do you feel like he is a godly man, worthy of the prophet’s trust, even though many of have spoken out about his corruption, mistreatment, and betrayal? REPLY: “Many” what (speak of his corruption)? The apostate is what is corrupted, having rejected the strick law of the Lord. Then they FEED a gullible world with the festering disease, and betray the truth, betrayal upon betrayal, until the constitution of man can not longer hold their bodies and spirits together, and they must be separated from the earth.


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