Yankie,

You are still doing the guilty first thing. Judges are THE people above all who should be putting the law first. An activist judge is one that makes up the law as they go. The do exactly what Walther is doing now, they interject their own politics into the case instead of letting the lawyers from either side do it and then ruling based in law on the facts in evidence and the arguments presented, as both of the appeals courts did, and ruled that she had not done. Now she is obviously pissed off, and that is a luxury that good judges should never allow themselves in the courtroom. Now the case is about her instead of the subjects of the court.

Without justifying any wrong doing, or any law breaking, or trying to exonerate the guilty, why can't they just make their case through legitimate means; Get real complaints from real witnesses in front of the right authorities, or the Grand Jury? Its just amazing how people like you can keep on with this perpetual prejudice, like "this time" the allegations are just so good that it justifies breaking the law and trampling peoples rights to bring them to "justice." Like, lets take advantage of this great opportunity to bring them down once and for all, we might never get a another chance..or a better one. Can't you see the fallacy in that kind of logic? It is especially bad from a legal perspective.

Its like in your mind it's ok to get Al Capone for tax evasion, if you can't prove the other crimes... well hell, ok then at least do that. But do it right, and without breaking the law to enforce it, and creating a whole new class of victims yourself in the process.

Even if/when they get some criminal cases going and even if they get some new convictions based on evidence that may have subjectively been gotten the wrong way, it will not justify what they did to all those innocent women and children. That is going to go down in history as a classic injustice and a travesty any way it shakes down.

Well Sayit I don't think I am prejudging the FLDS , No, in my mind if any thing I'm post judging them .

I think you would agree if the FLDS was a rouge Government or a corrupt corporation you would agree with me that it would be fair to place judgement on the leaders and those who choose to follow them in a collective manor .

You see Sayit its not just National leaders , CEOs or in this case the Prophet who sets the policy and standards who are only at fault , but those who choose to follow them . I know you personally have little respect for Jeffs and question his leadership , but I feel you also need to question those that follow this leadership .

Its a two part kind of a deal , the followers of Jeffs counsel are just as corrupt as Jeffs . They are one in the same Sayit , Jeffs cant be a church leader if there is no church followers . What ever Jeffs is , they are inclined to be also .

Only looking at the past and what has happened is where my judgement comes from . With this in mind tell me where I am wrong with my opinions .

Let me ask you some questions Sayit and see what we agree on , I'm hoping you will reply to each question .

Has there to date been underage marriages preformed by church leadership within the FLDS and supported and accepted by the general membership ?

Were some of the marriages that were preformed by Church leadership and accepted by membership incestuous between 1st cousins or close blood relationship ?

Has there been reassigning of families to other family groups and was this practice also accepted by membership of the FLDS ?

Has there been abandonment of underage children and was this practice first decided by church leadership and carried out by parents of the FLDS ?

When spoken from the pulpit by church leaders do the FLDS accept rational bigotry ?

Are the accounts of numerous Tax frauds such as welfare , medicare and misuse of public fonds that both Utah and Arizona suggest incorrect ?

While trying to avoid capture did Jeffs receive or use any church monies or support from membership of the FLDS ? Are you aware of any help the FLDS may have provided to bring about Jeff's capture ?

I want you to be completely candid with me Sayit , what instruction that could come from Jeffs would the FLDS membership choose not to follow at the risks of there souls going to hell ?

I like this statement of yours , its a real dandy for sure, but lets see how you answer my questions . I'm kinda thinking if you do you might agree that any perpetual prejudice I may have is really a matter of post judgement of facts and not fiction .

Why is it Sayit the laws you talk about are only meant for those who are not FLDS ? I mean when it doesn't suit Warren the Prophet , well , he does what he wants too and expects the FLDS membership to do the same . Doesn't he ? And doesn't the membership follow his instructions ?

Do you ever feel that just maybe there is some hypocrisy when Warren , You or other FLDS talk about obeying the laws and cry foul ? I don't know how you cant feel two faced about the whole deal if you only looked at Warren and didn't look further .

I'm not trying to suggest everything Texas did was completely lawful , but your posts comes across that the FLDS are completely innocent and always uphold the laws . Answer my questions and maybe we both might see things in a different light .

Let's just say for the sake of argument, that all of those "allegation" questions are true to some extent, however broad or limited. And lets agree that some of those things are wrong... even despicable and should be stopped. Still.. if there has been anything that is illegal, that should be complained about, and should be prosecuted.. it still has to be done within the real, not the imaginary, legal parameters.

I still say that nothing that is illegal is really an integral part of the fundamentals, but rather someone who is abusing the system to everyone's discredit. They are undoing the religion.. not doing it.

Technically speaking, from a legal perspective, you cannot make someone into a criminal for not reporting a crime. That will never work unless you want a Nazi regime. It may be an ethical violation sometimes, but it's not a criminal act.

If thats the way it is with you.. you've got your work cut out. You can probably even make a career out of it if you want. Keep in mind though, that you may have to testify and prove it all too. Anonymous phone calls can spark investigations, but they don't prove anything in court. You have to be ready to put your fat in the fire too.

Some of the flds are completely innocent. That's the point. Let's not just get all hyperactive because some dissidents get bent out of shape and start making accusations. If they have a legitimate complaint, they should file it with the proper authorities. What has happened, historically, is that pretty much most of the time when they do that, someone gets brought to justice.. or it goes away like it should. Except with the media, and the xflds. They just go right on with the allegations.. as though it was all still true, and someone just "got away with it" that time.

I'm not going to address each allegation. Some of them get "dignified by the argument" more than they even deserve. Like, I have always said.. make your case if you can, don't just expect the defense to make it for you... that's the guilty until proven innocent method that seems to be so popular now.

Most of them do have a counter argument as well, but there's no point in going into that with people who have already hijacked the moral high ground, and are hell bent on new age social engineering. What you really need to do is prove that your system works first... and then come back throwing stones at the "guilty" and accusing people of violating your social codes.

You might even discover that other people have legitmate reasons to believe what they do the same as you do.