The ones that go from 5th grade level to graduating in a year or two would be great, but that's not what's happening with most of them, and the ones who do struggle real hard to get there.

You know, you are saying we are making up all these stories about the FLDS. I try to be as rational and realistic as possible. If I am wrong, I want someone to point to my errors so I can correct my thinking. So tell me specifically, what do I believe about FLDS or Colorado City that is wrong.

Rodney Holms was convicted and sentenced to a fairly light sentence for having sex with an under aged girl. Can you tell me with a straight face he was innocent? I see people from there saying he was railroded or discriminated against because of his religion. But sex with a minor is illegal. If any of us outsiders did it we are prison bound for a lot longer than a year and not on work release either. I think he got a wrist slap. Am I wrong?

I think dumping teen aged boys on the street is a horrible thing to do. Well, am I wrong? If I did that there is this little felony called child abandonment and I have no doubt I'd be prison bound. Do you deny it happens? I think there is a religious discrimination here in that I wish someone would explain to me why with all the hundreds of "Lost boys" who've turned up, why hasn't any parent ever been prosecuted? Why aren't the normal standards we all have to live by applied to your community?

I've said girls are prevented from leaving and are "Pressured" into marriage. Well, that is what Evil Warren was convicted of wasn't it? Was he framed? Can you seriously tell me that only started with him? I've talked to a lot of women from there and I haven't really heard from any of them that they can just walk away from the FLDS if they want. In fact I hear very troubling stories about girls who have to go to tremendous lengths to get out. Flora got a cousin to help her by marrying her and then getting her out. She says she was confined in a room in Fred Jessop's home for two years prior to that. Is she lying? If so, tell me the truth.

Carolyn jessop snuck out past the guard force in the early AM. Here is here story as presented on the HOPE site. http://www.childbrides.org/carolyn.html Tell me what the errors are in her version of events.

The Fawns had a harrowing trip to a safe house. Are these people all lying? If so tell me what the truth is. How did Flora leave, or Carolyn, or the Fawns, or Mary Mackert, who claims she was threatened with blood atonement after she ran away in the night from the Draper home. If I'm wrong, give me some facts here, Say, but I've talked these girls face to face and they seemed sincere to me.

There was a story about a girl (can't recall the name right now) who fled Colorado City by running to Bountiful hoping that Winston Blackmore would keep her from being married off to Warren's brother. The story goes that Warren ordered her to submit or be blood atoned. She ended up going back to Colorado City and supposedly became a sweet crumpet for the brother, rather than having her throat slit. That's the story I got. Essentially it's rape under threat of death. Correct me please if I got it wrong.

I've travelled through hundreds of USA cities in my uneventful life. I've only been in one town where I was followed when I came in and where my movements were being reported. Do you really think that is a normal community? I say it's creepy and weird. Moreover, much that was positive is gone. What happened to Fred's zoo? What happened to the creamery? It's a weird town on a downhill track.

[QUOTE] I wish someone would explain to me why with all the hundreds of "Lost boys" who've turned up, why hasn't any parent ever been prosecuted? Why aren't the normal standards we all have to live by applied to your community?

Cactus , this is a good question , but I cant answer it .

Even history cant give a answer or has a comparison what happened among the flds membership concerning the Lost boys . Not the bible with its strange dealings of incest , muder and wholesale justifactions from prophits of god .

Even the treatment of the American Indian or Nazi s death camps are more understandable to me than how a small religious community could throw their own flesh and blood to the streets and abandon young children by the hundreds .

As far as I looked there has never been a incident in history similar to this one,
Where hundreds mothers , fathers , and thousands of extended family members allowed their own children to be thrown away to survive or die with such little compassion .

I wish some one could explain to me how a major portion of a community's mind set could go so terribly against God and even nature .

For six thousand years of biblical history I guess the devil saved up his most evil, sick and confusing undertaking to take place in the last days among the most valiant of his followers , Satan's "Saturday Night Warriors " . Yup , it was predestined from the beginning of time , all part of Gods plan .

Right ? ---Brother On the Street . Hows about a revelation from God just about now explaining all this lost boy stuff to us unrighteous future road kill of God .

You know Cactus , right about now I'm glad I'm not religious , I'd sure hate to answer for all that mess to a God . Some days I envy your total unbelieve in God . And sometimes your thoughts on religion are perfectly true , its too damn bad it has to be that way .

You could be right about a few of these observations.

You know the old scenario where it goes, "You can't fire me, because I quit." And the boss says oh no "you can't quit because your fired"

That's a little bit how this went. And then afterwords.. the guy tells everybody, That jerk fired me ! and the other guy says.. on no that worthless nerd... he quit on me !

But I'm sure that's never happened to you yankie.

But maybe that will help you understand how it happens.

Listen Say were talking about kids . If your implying ---

Its alright says the parent because my boy was leaving anyway

or its alright says the boy cause I want to leave .


Why sure that's just fine and dandy way to look at at children who end up on the streets left to beg steal and only god knows and cares what else . But wait a minute , even god was taken from them , kids on the street alone and didn't even have god to look too or look after them . Such compassion I tell you .

But that's alright says mommy , says daddy says everyone in the family because it was gods will they had to go , God sent these children away from us and him , bye bye johnny , dont bother writing or trying to come back because our loving god has spoken , he dosnt want you any more ----and neither do we .

What happened at CC by the flds leadership and membership mocks every godly principle , teaching and even at the roots of the most primitive tribes still living in the jungles of south America .

You dislike Jeffs , think he's apostate because he turned away from god . But tell me , are those who turned away from god any worse than who turned their own backs on their own children of god ?

Yup, The FLDS put a new meaning to " what ever you do unto the least of these (children ) you do unto me ".--- well actually Say I think the FLDS did turn their backs away from everything godly and went with everything Jeffs as if he was god .

By the way Say , your little analogy would be hysterical if we were not talking about innocent children and priesthood delusional parents , just so you know .

Gosh Curious your such a bone head , its Mat . 10 :37

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Not worthy and kicking someone out is a completely different thing , but like I said your such a bone head , if your going to quote you guys justification scripture at least get it right , good god , where do you guys come from any how ? Under the Crick ?

You forgot to mention that not having the stamina is an indication of immoral thinking, if not behavior.

but, you can't fire me. Because I quit.

Hello Too tired . I found this statement of yours a interesting .

"Warrens regime was the result of Guy Mussers ideas of how things should be".

I agree with your thoughts but will you agree with me if there had been no Guy Musser there would be very little or no Mormon fundamentalism today ?

Oh yeah ,you're right it was Joe I had in mind , my turn to be a bone head I guess LOL.

I've often wondered if it wasnt for Joe putting into print J. whooly's accounts, publishing the truth Magazine and not to mention writing a few books where polygamist churches would be today . It just seems if you take Joe out of the picture as promoter and organizer polygamy would have petered out years ago as we know it now . From how I understand the first few years John if anything reluctant and Lorin was more of a follower of Joe , perhaps not in position but in proportion of effort during the early days . Too tired , could it be said Joe is the true father of fundamentalism post manifesto ?

Correct me if I'm wrong , but wasnt it Joe who first made mention of priesthood surviving out side of the church to explain the decades old gap from the first council of friends which included Cannon and Taylor to when Joe was called into this next in line council of friends some thirty or forty years later ?

If Joe was the one who contrived this up you got to hand it too him , well that and everything else he did . Later .

[QUOTE]Of course, you will just treat my posts like everyone elses. No input

Golly Furnace I hope you dont feel this way. You want to hear something funny ? Up until I read this post I kinda thought you were a lady . , dont know why really, I guess it was your handle . Pretty interesting how you came about that name and I'd like to hear more about this scrambling stuff . I know you can buy cell signal jammers but the FCC really frowns on them to the point of getting all upset with some hefty fines if caught , down in Texas at YfZ can folks have cells and are there land lines to use ?

[QUOTE]I'm lost as to what you mean by "feel this way.



Well gosh , I guess I read your line a bit off when you were talking to Street about input .

[QUOTE]As far as coming across as a lady, have I been that mouthy?

Well now that you mention it , no not really, But it I guess this thought didn't click with me , Cant hear past my own noise most times .

Hey Furnace if you dont mind saying , how much misuse of public founds are you aware of at C.C. ?

I've heard it said that this "bleed the beast " practice was mostly a bunch of hype from the media. Care to say more about this and what you have experienced going more into detail? Thanks Mr. furnace .LOL

[QUOTE]My point is, there are families who get on it because it's there, and there are families who avoid getting on it if at all possible.

Well thanks to both of you for this info , Furnace & BBgae . Your experience's are pretty much in line with another former member of the FLDS who also is a member at this web site . Three former members saying the same things packs some weight in my mind to consider. Sounds like this term of" bleeding the beast " has been over spoken and has not been a completely fair term to use collectively regarding all FLDS members . Later .