Since this IS a polygamy forum, I thought it might be interesting to discuss this topic.

Are all ex FLDS really victims?

On one side (those of us who grew up there) you have everyone saying the people who leave are filled with evil spirits and they fight against the prophet because they want to harm him and God's work. They should be considered the epitome of the "anti-Christ'. They are fighting against the people they once loved and belonged to for the sheer vengeful joy of causing harm.

On the other hand, there's media and stories from the people who left which, if read without bias are usually quite horrifying.

I know there are sometimes good reasons why people get asked to leave. The ones who cheat on their spouses and molest their own children I fell like the church leaders are justified in asking to leave. However, in the case of cheating, I think the judgment is a little harsh. Normal people (a) forgive each other (b get a divorce. But the choice is theirs, and it is not made for them. Whereas, FLDS are told to leave their community, their families and extended families (with little or no contact), their houses, and their spouses.

But what if the spouse that cheated just has some serious personal problems he/ she needed to work out (not that I think cheating is right, because I don't) and their spouse wanted to forgive and help them? That option is not available. But that's beside the point of the topic.

So, we have the people who are 'justifiably' asked to leave through their own faults. Then, there are the people who are not justifiably asked to go- like the lost boy who watched a movie. It was something he knew he shouldn't do, but the punishment shouldn't be so harsh, IMHO.

And then there are the people who leave by themselves without being asked to go.
Like Carolyn Jessop. Still a horrifying story (no, I haven't read her book yet, but I am going to.)

I personally think the ex- FLDS are comprised of victims and non-victims.

But recently I was thinking and I wonder if maybe the people who leave, whether asked or not might have something horrible in their past that messed them up to the point they ended up where they are?

Maybe the thing that causes people to leave were things that "messed them up" like being sexually molested (or seeing their sister being sexually molested), seeing their teenage brother (whom they loved) being given 3 hours to pack their things and leave, told NEVER to return. Or maybe coming home from work and finding their family stripped from them and they were told they would NEVER see them again. Or they came home and found they had an entire new family (reassigned) and would NEVER see (or be able to mention) their true family again. Or, for the wife (who had so callously been reassigned) would never see her beloved husband again, but would be expected to start having children with a total stranger that night.

Just maybe the people who left had nothing what so ever in their past that "messed them up". Maybe the people who left finally came to their senses and realized that they had spent their lives following a lie, chasing windmills and loving a false prophet.

So, WTF-

Does that mean you think all ex- FLDS are victims, or not?

Judging from your post, I think maybe you were "messed up".

I was "messed up", too.

I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor!

Not everyone who leaves has a skeleton in their closet. That said, "sayitaintso" reminds us that the enemy of our enemy isn't always our friend. Just because I realized it was all vodoo doesn't mean I want to associate with others who have left the FLDS who may be child molestors. For me, it got to the point that I felt I would be damned if I went along with what was going on. I felt like even if I "don't know who God is and how to become like him", I knew who he wasn't and that I would never find him on the present course things were going. I guess I had a "shocker", which often takes people out of a cult. My shocker was I was told to "lie to gentiles if they ask what you are doing when you buy supplies". That floored me and led to my leaving. That, and the extreme secrecy and being told "if even one word gets out about this rock cutting saw, our prophet's life will be in danger. You can't even tell your wife what you are working on. Don't even begin to speculate what this saw will be used for. This is training for how things will be in Zion."

As far as fighting those we once loved, well, everyone will fight when cornered. If they won't take care of our children at a medical facility, it is only a matter of time before the Attorney General gets involved and has a few words to say to the Clinic. If they fire at Forestwood because the prophet has asked some young man out, it's only a matter of time before some young man files a wrongful termination lawsuit. When these things happen, they are "fighting". Well, BS deserves to be fought against. Behave yourselves and act like saints maybe the "apostates" wouldn't fight the FLDS. I have personally been robbed by Saints, as have many other "apostates". And then Warren turns around and calls anyone who refuses to leave their home on UEP a robber and a thief. Even if that is true, if I find out a person has stolen, does that justify me stealing from him? The FLDS think so.

Having been on both sides of the fence, I can honestly state that the "Saints" fight "apostates" far worse than any "apostate" ever fought a "saint". Once one leaves, it's amazing how their former bretheren treat them at times (not all, but some).

Well, I'm a refugee from the mainstream watered down LDS. Large charge, right? I guess we're a dime a dozen. We just don't have the sex appeal of you actual FLDS refugees.

But I am regarded as messed up. As Cactus was saying, I'm thinking I have Aspberger's syndrome, which is a mild form of autism. It's a condition by which people think one is wierd, even though the subject perceives hirself as normal. Hey, I'm normal. It's these other people who are wierd. These other people think I'm wierd in my own right, plus I don't share their delusions anymore. Double whammy.

I left because I had an upbringing that saw all kinds of people, polygamist and non, that came and visited us, and spent hours talking to my Dad. I think this liberality led me to associate with the "apostates" in the Centennial Park group. I now find myself detached from any group or church and I am fine with that. I intend to raise my kids with an open mind . Though I was abused by someone in the FLDS when I was 8, I don't feel like a victim of the FLDS or a victim of anything except my bad choices.

I think maybe my topic starter was not written as well as it could have been. I am glad for everyone's responses. I do not consider my self a victim, either, although I could have a legitimate reason to call myself that if I wanted to, but I do not want to.

Victim is such a nasty word.

It implies lack of responsibility on the party claiming to be such and it makes others feel obligated to feel or express sympathy.

Maybe a better way to rephrase my question is: How do we feel the people leaving the FLDS have been treated while living the religion and afterward? Are they really taken advantage of? Or is it not as bad as it sometimes seems- as a general populace, not individuals- unless the example of an individual is the reason for your decision on the matter.

Well people, what do you think?

I do not consider my self a victim, either, although I could have a legitimate reason to call myself that if I wanted to, but I do not want to.

Victim is such a nasty word.

It implies lack of responsibility on the party claiming to be such and it makes others feel obligated to feel or express sympathy.
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Well said BBGAE I still feel an attachment to the community, those still in and suffering quietly and those who have left. I am disgusted by the older 40+ crowd who did nothing to stop the bastards that are in charge now. I see the newsmakers that have left and some of them tug at my heart. I remember Elissa as a baby, and others who have used their agency and left, with more detriment than I faced, losing contact with family and friends.

As far as I can see the people still considered "in", are either:
1.In a power position
2.Keeping their head down , but know better, for their familys sake
3. want to leave, but are afraid there is no other place for them
4. ignorant sheeple

Duff:
My perspective says you were one of the smart ones. I say the bastards now, the Warren/ Willy/etc faction who took the control doctrine to depths that many thought would never happen. Of course, they managed to run off the original bastards , the Barlow men and their ilk.